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Boy Wonder - chick feeding chick

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Even when Boy Wonder was in the nest, I could see that he would likely be male as he had extraordinarily dark feathers.  Sometimes these dark feathers start to lighten as the chick develops and the earlier promise is false and it turns out to be female.

I can only be sure that a chick is male when one or more blue feathers start to show on the head or neck region. The blue feathers usually start to emerge only when the chick is about 30 days old.

In BW's case at the age of 22 days, the blue feathers are already prominent.  They can be seen in the area around his collar and upper back in the first photo below.

BW may eventually grow very long taimong tails.  In my line of shamas, very long taimong tails indicate that the adult tails will also be very long. For the taimong tails to be considered very long they will need to exceed 6.25" and preferably be close to 7" when fully grown at the age of about 65 days. With taimong tails of almost 7", it is likely that the primary tails after the first moult will exceed 13".

Its a long time to wait for the end of 65 days and I always would like some early indication if the chick is likely to have long tails. From experience with my line of birds such as Firefly and Pretty Good, I know that if a chick has tails exceeding 3.25" at the age of 32 days, its taimong tails will likely substantially exceed 6" when fully grown.

I think there is a good chance that BW will have long taimong tails. Last Sunday, I measured his tails at 1.25".  He was then 20 days old.  Yesterday evening I measured his tails at 1.75" i.e a growth of 0.5" in 2 days. The rapid growth may stop and the tails may eventually be short.  I will measure his tails again when he is 32 days old to get a better indication of his eventual tail length.

I mentioned in an earlier post that BW gets hungry within half the time of other chicks and he eats twice as much.  He must have a very high metabolic rate. This by itself is noteworthy but he is proving to be very interesting in another way.  At the very young age of 22 days, he is already showing some extraordinary parental behaviour.  In the past I have seen on occasion, a chick feeding another chick.  This is usually a one off happening for the chick.  In the case of BW, he seems to regard it as his duty to feed the 2 chicks with him.

On Sunday evening, I had transferred Spark's 2 twelve days old chicks to the same cage as BW who was then 21 days old.  BW could already feed on his own and he had done so for the past few days.

Yesterday (Monday) BW fed the 2 chicks off and on throughout the day.  The 2 young chicks still need to be hand-fed, but not as often. [Update: By noon today, BW had been feeding the 2 chicks so diligently throughout the morning that there was little need for my helper to also feed them. I expect that BW will continue to feed the chicks and he will teach them how to feed themselves in due course.]

Below, are 3 photographs that I took of BW feeding the chicks yesterday evening.

The first photo shows him stretching out to offer a cricket to a chick.  It did not open its beak so he hopped to the other chick and fed it as shown in the 2nd photo.  The 3rd photo shows him really making sure that the cricket is deep in the beak of the chick.  It is necessary to do this as a 13 days old chick still needs to have the food placed deep inside its beak.




This morning before I left for work, I took the video below of BW feeding one of the chicks.  It is interesting to observe that when he himself intends to eat an insect, he quickly kills it and swallows it. However, when he is feeding it to a chick, he first softens the insect in his beak before feeding it to the chick.  This can be seen in the video below.  This is exactly what a parent would do when feeding a chick of this age.


Skyhawk after his recent molt

2013 Season

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My fifth generation line-bred white-rumped shama chick.  It is 18 days old.  It began learning to take food from the floor of the cage 4 days ago. Now, at 18 days of age, it is able to take food for itself from a tray on the floor of the cage. Hand-feeding is still necessary though not so frequently.


Let me share with you a story that a buyer of shamas from a breeder told me.

The seller of shamas had bred the species for only approximately 2 years.  He was asked by the buyer of a shama from him for his views on line-breeding.  He said he was against it.  He gave as his reason that the 2nd generation would produce "nuts and fools" as he put it.  Thankfully, this has not been my experience.  In fact, I think that if the breeder knows what he is doing, the quality of line-bred birds should progressively improve.

To successfully line-breed, the breeder needs to start with stock that have all or most of the qualities that he intends to produce in his birds.  The foundation stock should have as little defects as possible.  Then only can the breeder hope to achieve his dreams.  I can only assume that the above breeder started with inferior stock and he started to see the results even in his 2nd generation.

Pretty Good

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This is Pretty Boy's son, Pretty Good.  He is 7 months old and has just completed his first moult.

DDS344

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The video below was recorded late yesterday evening.  It is of Flame's son, DDS344.  He hatched on 14 May 2013 so he is now slightly more than 6 months of age.  I estimate his primary tails to be10.5" to 11".  After another 2 moults, the tails should well exceed 12".

DDS344's elder brother is Rave.  I have transferred Rave to an outdoors aviary to make way for other young shamas (DDS344, DDS347 and Pretty Good) to be in cages.  I need to have the young shamas in cages after the moult to get them used to the cage and to people.

DDS344 completed his moult early but it was a good moult.  Most shamas his age will still be in their juvenile feathers.  However, notwithstanding his adult plumage, he is still quite immature as can be seen from the broad base of his beak.

At this stage, he is still to young to have an interest in females or to react to other males or to contest territory.  Apart from his "baby" beak", the pale colour of the inside of his beak shows his immaturity and tells us that he is likely to have little form. At this age, if he was free in the forest, he would probably be hanging out at the outskirts of a territory held by a dominant male while he matures and learns and and improves on his songs.

DDS344 has the structure and posture that I try to breed into my line of shamas. As regards character and willingness to contest,  I need to test him with other shamas.  Nevertheless, his performance in the video at this very young age suggests that he has the potential to be a most desirable shama when he develops and matures. Some shamas tend to display and to sing very little.  Others may sing and not display.  DDS344 does both.

Skyhawk191113

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Yesterday evening, Mark visited with 2 of his shamas.  One is about to moult and therefore not in form.  The other shama performed very well and displayed and sang during the chai session of about 1 1/2 hours.

I took the opportunity to train my young birds and also to raise Skyhawk's form. Below is a video of Skyhawk which was recorded more than 1 hour after the start of the chai session.

The shama is an open-ended learner and it can learn new songs throughout its life.  Skyhawk has learnt some of the songs of the Samyong (Bare-throated Whistler) and he has incorporated them into his repertoire.  Skyhawk's interpretation of the Samyong song can be heard about half-way through the recording - immediately before and after he pauses to check his feet.

Will - Breeding Will

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I line-breed my shamas and every single one of them can trace their lineage back to Godfather and his offspring and their offspring since 2001.

The best of my shamas have inherited the ability from Godfather to produce offspring that are as good or better then themselves. Many are prepotent and these birds are much sought after by other breeders.

However, line-breeding requires that the line-bred birds be out-crossed from time to time to avoid the inherent defects that can show up with too much line-breeding.  The great difficulty is to find and obtain a shama (male or female) that can be used as an out-cross and which is prepotent i.e able to pass on the desired genes to their offspring and their subsequent progeny. Such birds are really rare.  Over the years, while the out-crossing have resulted in young, they have not met the standards that I have in mind for my stud birds and I have not bred from them.

Through the kindness of my friend, William Kwa, I obtained a Malaysian wild-caught shama with primary tails of 10.5" which had the characteristics that I was looking for.  I wished to breed from him as he has a trait that I like.  During display in the presence of other male shamas, he has a tendency to jump to the bars of the cage and cling to them while he sang aggressively and slowly waved his tails slowly up and down, as though he is waving a fan. This is not only beautiful and unusual but it will also be less tiring in a competition than a bird that flicks its tails rapidly.

Last year and early this year, I matched Will on separate occasions with 3 of my females.  In the first match, all seemed OK when the birds were introduced.  After the apparent successful introduction, I went to the office.  While I was at work, he killed the female.

In the 2nd and 3rd pairing, I kept a close eye on the birds.  On each occasion, he harassed the females and I had to remove them before he could do damage.

Last month, I introduced another female to him on a Saturday morning so that I could keep an eye on them over the weekend. There were no problems.  The female built a nest and laid eggs.  I did not how many as I did not want to disturb the pair.

She brooded the eggs.  Two of the eggs hatched last Sunday (4 days ago) and another hatched in the late morning on Monday. Later, in the early afternoon on Monday I received a phone call that a chick was on the floor of the aviary but it was still alive.  It was the youngest chick and the parents must have removed it from the nest.

I immediately gave instructions to remove all the chicks.  This is necessary as once the parents throw a chick out of the nest, the tendency is that all the chicks will eventually suffer the same fate. There were a total of 3 chicks and there were no eggs left in the nest so all the 3 eggs had been fertile and had hatched.

The youngest chick was unresponsive and seemed in bad shape. The other 2 were a bit weak. All the chicks were placed in the brooder to warm them for a while before trying to feed them.  After about 20 minutes in the brooder, the chicks were fed but only the 2 eldest opened their beaks for food.  The youngest was unresponsive.

The first photo below shows what the chicks looked like.  The eldest chicks are a day old. There is only a day's difference between them and the newly hatched 3rd chick but the difference in size is substantial.


The 3rd chick died within an hour and I was sorry that I could not save it.  The other two are doing well as can be seen from the photo below that I took this morning.  With a bit of luck, they will continue to do well and I will have Will's progeny so that I can assess Will's potential as a stud.


Rave & Falcon

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Below is the 5th video of Rave. It was recorded yesterday and shows Rave's improvement in form from the first video recording on 23rd October 2013.

Rave is an immature shama.  The video shows him singing at home without competing birds nearby.


Below is a photo of Falcon after his molt.  It was taken yesterday.



Pied shamas

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I acquired this pied female shama last year.  It is not an albino as the eyes are not red.

The female was very wild when I got it and it was also afraid of the male.  It has since molted and now seems much more stable.

Two days ago, I paired her with Falcon in my indoor aviary.  The pair seem compatible and both visit the nest-box, sometimes together.

My aim is to breed pied shamas with the structure, song and display of my line of birds.  With this female, I hope to have started on the right path.


Incubator temperature

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The other day, a friend told me that he had asked someone who had bred shamas for about 2 years, what the incubator temperature should be for shama eggs.  The breeder was his friend and he was surprised when the breeder told him that this was "confidential information" and refused to provide it.

As I know this breeder very well, I was not surprised at his attitude. However, I was surprised that he would refuse to assist a friend with information that is already freely available to the public on my website and blog and possibly elsewhere.  This breeder had himself discovered the temperature setting for shama eggs from my website and blog.

I should mention that when I wanted to artificially incubate shama eggs about a dozen years ago, no information on the subject was available despite my diligent search. I had to find out the proper temperature setting for shama eggs through research and trials.

It was a frustrating search. Books that I came across provided long lists of temperature settings for the eggs of various birds but not for shamas.  However, in one book that I came across (I think it was "Practical Incubation" by Rob Harvey) it was suggested that in the absence of information on the precise temperature for hatching eggs, a temperature setting of 37.4 degrees centigrade would probably be OK for small birds.

I tried this temperature setting for my shama eggs. The eggs hatched in about 11 days with no problems and I have since been using this temperature setting and recommending that this setting be used in my writings on breeding the shama.  I feel that such information should be shared as the more successful breeders of shamas there are the less demand there will be for wild-caught shamas and this is a good thing as we should preserve the birds in the wild as much as possible.

For novice breeders who may need to artificially incubate shama eggs, may I suggest that you type the word, "temperature" in the search box of this blog for basic information on the correct incubator temperature and other related information on incubator hatching.

Phoenix

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Below are 3 videos of Phoenix that were recorded yesterday.  The first video was recorded by Michael on his handphone and sent to me by Whatsapp, so its not very clear. It shows Phoenix and a little of Skyhawk which is the only shama beside him. The other 2 videos were recorded by me on my handphone.

I have not measured the length of Phoenix's tails but for those who want to estimate how long they are, they may wish to know that the size of the cage is 30 inches.  A 30 inches cage has a diameter of 30" i.e. 15" on either side of the perch.  If the shama is standing in the centre of the perch, he will be at the widest point of the cage. Give an allowance of say 1 1/2" for the rear end of the bird before the start of the tails.  This means that if the tails are straight like a ruler and they touch the bars of the cage, the tails will be approximately 13 1/2".  In Phoenix's case the tails protrude well beyond the cage bars so I would estimate their length to be 14 1/2" to 15".

The cage is a little small to accommodate his long tails.  However, because the tails are soft, they tend not to fray.  This is the type of tails I try to line-breed for - not too soft and not to stiff.  I don't want the tails to be too soft as they tend to droop.





Reviving a lifeless puppy

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As readers of my blog will know, I frequently discuss with, and/or consult, Jeffrey Low on matters relating to the health, care and nutrition of my shamas.

Below is text and a video that I took from Jeff's youtube.  It was published yesterday and shows his miraculous efforts to revive a lifeless newly born puppy.  While the text and video are not about birds as such, they do show Jeff's knowledge and ability in animal care.

Here in Jeff's words is what happened, followed by the video:  "This was the last of the 9 pups from a rottie bitch whelping for the first time. It wasn't an easy one with 4 breech deliveries. This last pup was huge and the contractions were weak. The bitch was already exhausted by then (and so was I). The last pup was stuck near the exit for quite sometime and the sac was already broken. It had suffocated and came out without any signs of life. Good thing I didn't give up on him.

The whole process of delivering the 9 pups took about 10 hours. A total of 6 cc of calcium gluconate in 3 divided doses were administered intra-muscularly to support the contractions. Oxytocin was only injected im after the last pup was delivered.

I am happy that all 9 pups survived and are doing well as of now. 2 were fostered to another bitch with a smaller litter."



Visitor from Holland

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Visiting David de Souza,

In March this year, Sjef van den Branden, who is from Holland, was kind enough to visit my home.  He knows my dear friend, Axel Voltz, and I was happy to spend some time with him in the company of my very good friends, William and Jeffrey.

Following the visit, Sjef wrote an article for his club magazine.  I requested for a translation for my blog and he very kindly took the trouble to translate the article into English.  Below is the article.  It has been lightly edited by me. My comments are in [    ].

If you've ever searched for information about the copsychus malabaricusyou'll probably know [David De Souza]. An encounter was arranged because we have a mutual friend ,  something what I thought to be very hard, because David told me he gets a lot of requests from all around the world. Usually he doesn't reply to those requests, however I did get invited to meet him at his home and two of his best schamafriends.

The selection
David picked me up at the hotel and once we arrived at David's house, I saw his  shamas and trust me: the tails are even longer in real life. I can also tell you that his schama's don't have tiny bodies, they are beautiful average sized schamas. David and his friends select on shape and length of the tail, the figure, the singing and how a bird presents itself.

How did they achieve that goal?
First of all by searching for the most beautiful birds with the longest tails in surrounding countries and islands like Thailand and Vietnam. Smaller birds appeared to be less suitable to show their bigger tails, so they need to have a reasonable posture. Then the best imitators were selected which already had quite good singing skills. They became even greater singers by listening to other sounds of birds.

David suggested the European Schamakeepers to do the same, if they want to have better and more beautiful birds. He understands that we don't have the same possibilities here when it comes to selection, that they had. A goal that they could achieve in let's say [a few years], the same goal would take us [much longer], but now with the export stop it's almost impossible to achieve.

Way of breeding
The way of breeding is quite different than our manner. You would expect that they breed their birds in aviaries full of plants. However there was no green to be found in the cages and there wasn't any contact with the ground. There were only newspapers at the bottom. [I prefer newspapers as it is easier to clean]

Supply and demand
David and his friends asked me what an average shama costs in Europe and I told them that the price would be about 200, 300 or even 500 euros for the most beautiful birds. Then I asked them how much they would ask for one of their birds.  They don't sell their birds that often, but if they do, they sell them for an amount of money that I don't dare to mention.  [It's all a question of rarity and supply and demand.  In recent years, there has been an upsurge in the popularity of the shama in South East Asia and especially in Thailand.   The most beautiful long-tailed shamas are rare and therefore command high prices for serious hobbyists and breeders.  The highest price paid for a shama in Singapore was S$16,000.00 (about 8,000 Euros). Another was sold in Malaysia for S$14,000.00 and resold in Thailand for S$18,000.00.  For those who wish to start with juvenile shamas because of cost or other reasons, a juvenile with great potential may fetch from S$4,500.00 to twice this amount]

Then there was a moment of silence and I thought: This is incredible. My amazement got even bigger when they told me that the amount of money for a champion of the zebradove was even higher. They let me hear one of those champions. They judged those zebradoves a bit like how we judge a European finch (Fringilla coelebs) here in Holland. At schools in Thailand you have even special classes where you learn how to judge the singing quality of those birds.

Just before I left they told me that there are practically no schama's living in the wild [in Singapore]. As a real Schama fan this was a wonderful day. I'm very happy with the schamas I own, because breeding those kind of schamas takes me too much time and is a mission impossible.

Thank you David, William and Jeffrey for  this visit.
Sjef van den Branden (Holland)


Letter from Portugal, incubators and brooders

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Paulo Jorge Pereira
Dec 2 (2 days ago)

December 2, 2013,
Dear David,

I never had the chance to thank you for your introduction to Sjef. I already spoke 
with him over skipe and might pay him a visit in my next travel to Holland. 
Thank you.

I just read your last article on breeding shamas with the help of an incubator. Is there
a special brand you recommend. I'n about to go for a small one, probably an 
RCOM but could use some of your advise.

My male shama just finished the molt and is improving his singing with your Rave, 
as I play him back and forth on Youtube when around. Thanks

Paulo
Portugal


Hi Paulo,
December 2, 2013

I was more than happy to assist.

I use the Brinsea brand of incubators and brooders which I have found to be 
reliable.  The model of the incubator that I use is the Brinsea Octagon 20.  
This is their smallest incubator but it will probably be too large for you if you
only intend to incubate shama eggs.

I have friends who have used the small RCOM incubators and I think they 
should be alright.  I would not use the large RCOM brooder as they seem 
to be intended more for parrots which do not require a relative humidity
higher than 65.
  
The RCOM is very high tech and the relative humidity (RH) cannot be set 
higher than 65 which is too dry for shama chicks. 

I set the relative humidity (RH) for shama chicks at about 80 - 85 which
seems to be just right.

Best regards,

David

Shama chai in Holland

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sjef van den Branden
Nov 29 (6 days ago)
to David
Hello David we had an atempt to keep a shama chai,

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBFlA6Rrajk#t=29&hd=1
There were 25 birds, only four made it to the final, see the film.
In my opinion it was bad timing as the birds were already starting to molt. Also, it is winter here in Holland now, etc
I have suggested a new date in Mai, organized by our club and make it a official Dutch Champignon Chip.

I myself will help organise the competitionand make sure that it will be a better attempt.

I also entered a bird for the competition just to make sure there were enough birds.  It has never been in a small cage before.
Greetings Sjef


2013 Season

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Seven months old captive-bred shama (DDS344) practicing his songs and display:

Video of captive bred shama

Long-tailed shamas in competition

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Skyhawk was 2nd (out of about 60 shamas) in the Kebun Bahru Bird Singing Club Shama Competition yesterday.

Skyhawk’s entry in the competition was the result of a decision that Michael and I made recently that we should try to take a more active role in competing our birds.   We feel that this is necessary to dispel the myth that long-tailed, captive-bred, shamas cannot compete on equal terms with short-tailed shamas in a competition of 2 hours or more.  The general belief is that the long-tailed birds will tire more quickly since they have to wave their longer and heavier tails and this adversely affects not only their ability to display, but also their song.

In the past, Michael and I have seldom entered out shamas in competition. In a choice between mating or competing them, we have invariably chosen to breed them so that we can see the quality of their progeny.  

An example is Skyhawk who has hardly been competed.  I have no regrets as I have obtained some outstanding offspring from him.  These include Falcon who embodies practically all that I want in a male shama.  He is more beautiful and more aggressive than his father and he will probably make a great competitor.  Unfortunately, I will not be able to compete him anytime soon as he has been mated and the female is presently sitting on eggs.

It must be conceded that a long-tailed shama (with tails of 13” or more) can be expected to tire more quickly than a shama with shorter tails as it takes much more effort to lift the long tails.  Nevertheless, I have reason to believe that this disadvantage can be overcome with selective breeding, nutrition, care and training.  I would like to consider these briefly below.

Selective breeding
Breeders who wish to breed quality shamas should try to breed birds that excel in all departments and they should not confine themselves to just producing long tails.  The first thing to note is that to enable the shama to carry its long tails with ease, the bird should preferably not be too small although I have seen some smaller sized long-tailed shamas that were able to perform magnificently. 

A bird that embodies the size that I try to breed in my birds is Falcon.  He is slightly larger than his father.  There is a photo of him elsewhere in this blog.  This larger size should provide room for more muscle to more effectively leverage the longer and heavier tails.

While size is important, it is even more critical that the bird must have a strong character.  This is a characteristic that can also be bred into the birds.  I read in a book on breeding gamecocks that it should be assumed that all characteristics are reproducible.  A strong never-say-die competitor will be able to overcome all odds as his will to compete will cause him to not give up and he will try to perform at his best even when he is absolutely tired.  The consistent production of such a bird is something that I try to achieve in my breeding program.

Nutrition
A shama intended for competition is an athlete.  As such, it should be fed a diet that will enable it to perform at its best and to have sufficient energy for the duration of the competition.  The diet should not be such as to make the bird fat. I have found that a combination of live insects and a commercial dry food is best.  The important thing is to ensure that it eats well.

Suitable home environment
A suitable home environment for the competing shama is one in which it is as far away from other singing shamas as possible.  I am told that rich shama owners in Indonesia even go to the trouble and expense of housing their top competition shama in a home in which it is the only shama.  “Jockeys” are hired to look after and to train the birds.  The birds are trained by being surround with other species of songbirds known as “masters”.

For me, it is impossible to have such an environment for my birds as I have about 20 male shamas in my home and some of them are paired.   I therefore need to make do when preparing my bird for competition.  I also cannot train the competition bird in the garden as this will disturb the breeding birds.  There is also the difficulty of training him away from the home because of the problem of transporting the cage, which may be as large as 30”.

Transportation
The competition bird will need to be transported from its home to the competition grounds, probably by vehicle.  It should therefore get used to such transportation.  A sign that the bird is stressed by the transportation is that it will have its beak open when the cage cloth is removed and one of the first things it will do is to drink water.

Familiarity with people
I was astonished to see advice given some time back that a competition shama should be afraid of people but not of birds. This seemed bonkers to me.  If the shama is afraid of people, it will hardly be able to perform at its best as there are always crowds at a competition.  Even removing the cloth cover from the cage will cause the bird to panic. Also, the judges will be moving around the arena and if the bird is not used to people, it will tend to stop singing or to sing less as the judge approaches. 

I believe that a bird intended for competition should be familiar with the movement of people around it.  As part of it’s training, the caged bird should be placed in an area where people pass by.

Training for bird gatherings
The bird that is intended for competition should be used to the close presence of strange shamas. Start with small gatherings and gradually work up to the large gatherings at a chai tio such as at Block 159, Ang Mo Kio, on Sunday mornings where there may be 40 to 50 shamas.

Ability to recover quickly after a competition and consistency
It is undesirable to have a shama that takes a long time to recover after a competition or that is so stressed out by a competition that it goes into moult.  Such a bird is of limited value.  What we should be looking for is a bird that can quickly recover after a competition and that looks forward to competing.  The ability to do so is the result of a combination of genes, nutrition and care.


I will be able to test Skyhawk’s competitiveness, consistency and if he has the ability to recover quickly from yesterday's competition in 2 weeks when the last competition of the year will be held (Sunday 29 December).  I understand that this competition will be run along Singapore Shama Club lines with judges provided by the club.

Birds for future competitions

For next year and longer, Michael and I have picked out a number of young birds that we are tentatively setting aside for competition. The idea is to compete them first and only pair them at a much later date. These birds include Goose, Jazz and some of the offspring from this year.  Amongst this year's promising males are the offspring of Alpha and Killer that Michael is breeding.

We have tested the eldest chick from this couple on several occasions on Sunday morning at Block 159.  At 5 months, he showed no hesitation in singing his primary song and displaying for extended periods in the company of adult birds.  He is totally unafraid and if he continues like this, he should be ready for competition after March next year.

I end with a recent photo of Will's male offspring which look promising.


Rave at 9 months of age - starting to come into form

Artificial Incubation

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Hi Trisno,

Glad to receive your email.

I reproduce your email below with my answers in red print after each question.

Keeping Shama is one of my hobbies. Just about 2 years ago, I started breeding Aceh Shama (known as Medan Shama), and recently I am intensively breeding more Shamas. In the progress, I am using an egg incubator due to the noisy sound resulted from a new house construction in the back of my house which causes most my Shamas throwing away their eggs.

For egg incubation, I use 2 units of Brinsea Mini Advance which are equipped with the digital thermometer without the humidity control. One serves as a setter and the other is a hatcher. I just bought these units from brinsea distributor in Singapore just last week.

Pursuant to the general review on the intended incubator, I am of the view that it does not have any significant humidity issue during the hatching period whereby breeder is sufficiently to add more water in the other pots (brinsea mini advance has 2 pots for water). I will later ask you on the humidity issue below.

I note that you also use Brinsea Octagon 20 which may have similar features with Brinsea Mini Advance. Therefore, I would be pleased if you could assist me with the below questions based on your experiences in shama breeding generally and using brinsea incubator specifically.

1. Incubation period. I note from your blogs, shama egg may start hatching on 11th day in artificial incubation which is nearly same with my breeding experience (12 days by natural incubation). However, when using an incubator, I think the range must be more definite so that I can identify when to stop egg turning. I have a doubt on this since mostly Indonesian breeders estimate incubation period of shama ranges from 12 to 14 days. To your experience in using incubator, when will you stop turning eggs?

DDS: The best way to determine the progress of the developing egg is to “candle” it.  Asby sells a dedicated egg candler.  If you don’t have this, a small torchlight will do.  Even the “assist light” on the hand-phone is sufficiently bright to provide information on the developing egg. From the 4th day of artificial incubation, I may candle the eggs every 2 or 3 days.  By the 9th day, the embryo should have developed into a dark mass that occupies the smaller part of the egg.  When you see this, you should stop turning the eggs. If you want to preset the timing, I would do so at the end of the 9th day.

2. Commencement of egg turning

Some local breeders using the incubator(mostly chicken or ducks) suggest that the first day to fourth day, egg is not allowed to be turned for the stable temperature purpose. While brinsea incubators suggest that the eggs turning commences on the first day. What do you think of these?

DDS: The books on artificial incubation suggest that the freshly laid bird’s eggs should not be placed in the incubator straight away but after one or two days and I observe this.  I switch on the turning mechanism for my shama eggs immediately I place them in the incubator.  I have never had any problem with egg turning.

3. Egg turning interval

What interval do you use for egg turning ranging from 30 to 180 minutes?

DDS: Egg turning intervals on the Brinsea Octagon 20 is preset and cannot be adjusted.  I have not timed it but it would seem to be about 30 minutes.  My experience has been that the egg turning interval is not critical for shama eggs.

4. Egg turning angle

How long will the motor run for egg turning angle ranging from 1 to 20 seconds?

DDS: I am not sure of the question as I have not used the Mini Advanced. On the Octagon 20, the motor runs continuously with a slight pause at the end of each turn.

5. Incubation cooling

Do you use this feature? If yes, for how many hours or minutes for incubation cooling? Is it ok if I just turn off the incubator power for cooling purpose?

DDS: I do not use this feature at all.  When I first started breeding shamas, I would be anxious if the female spent long hours in the day away from the nest.  However, I found that so long as the female sat on the nest during the night, the eggs would hatch.  This experience suggests that there is no harm in practicing some form of incubation cooling.  However, I have never done so.  Except for checking the water level in the incubator or the eggs every few days, I do not open the cover of the incubator.

6. Humidity

I note from your blogs that for hatching shama egg needs more humidity at about 80 to 85. This which I can not control with my brinsea mini advance since it is not equipped with humidity settings. As stated earlier, during the hatching period brinsea mini advance users are sufficiently to add more water in the other pot.  If I wish to add more humidity level, can I add one cup full of water in the incubator? Is there any adverse consequence if more humidity occurs during the hatching period?

DDS: I check and ensure that the temperature of the incubator is set at about 37.4 degrees each time I use it but I do not check the humidity in the incubator as I have found that there is sufficient humidity if I follow the manufacturer’s instructions.  I check and top up the troughs of the Octagon 20 with water as necessary and my experience has been that the humidity is sufficient for the eggs to develop and hatch.  Humidity becomes very important to the chicks after hatching.  I make sure that the brooder has a humidity of 80 to 85.  Otherwise, the skin of the chicks starts to dry out.

7. Fertility enhancer

If you don't mind, could you please share your most preferred fertility enhancer for shama breeding?


DDS:  I have used several brands of fertility enhancer including the German brand that is sold by Asby.  My preference is “Breeding Aid” by Vetafarm.  However, surprisingly, it does not contain vitamin E so I additionally supplement this vitamin.

Wishing you success in your hobby,

David

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